dreher.net

by **rich** » Mon Feb 18, 2002 4:49 pm

Hi All,

I have just set up this forum to allow people interested in this project to easily communicate with each other and myself. As I write, Feb 18, 2002 I am preparing to make a second prototype run of two boards. Testing on the IIgs has begun and someone is even hacking on a GS/OS driver!

I will still be mainly using my web page for project status updates: https://dreher.net/CFforAppleII/#Status

Rich
_________________

[ This Message was edited by: rich on 2002-02-18 17:25 ]

by **dlyons** » Mon Feb 18, 2002 8:25 pm

Hi Rich,

Just testing the forum. I heard a rumor that the Apple II is dead, but I don't believe it.

by **jobutex** » Tue Feb 19, 2002 8:23 pm

Rich, I think this is an awesome project that you have begun! I am following its progress with great eagerness!! :smile:

by **WilliK** » Wed Feb 20, 2002 9:51 am

JAFT (Just another forum test)

Willi

by **bigboytoddy** » Wed Feb 20, 2002 10:56 pm

Wow, this is like a dream come true for a hardcore Apple IIGS fan. I have been writing device drivers for the II since 1982/3 when I hacked the Hayes modem drivers and PPS/BBS drivers while exiting high school in Seattle. Enough about me, I'm excited about this project, the IDE/ATA project, the one that inspired this one (15 bucks for a card ain't bad) and of course others like the Ethernet project for Apple II (which I'm about to order, but a bit steep IMHO, 149 is a LOT for a NIC). I have many, many Apple IIGS systems. I have dozens, even approaching 100 Apple IIs, 6 storage units of stuff, 1.5 of that is Apple II related stuff. I have 300+ books on Apple, and related software for the Apple. So, this is a find and much more for me, I'm excited to see folks working to hack the apple back into a level of fun and entertainment that Woz would be proud, and surely astonished at if he just knew. Someone needs to email Steve and let him know indeed the Apple II is not dead. Rich, keep in touch with me, you know how to get a hold of me, and I'm up for at least 1 of these cards/kits. I would like to see kits sold, in the flavor of the homebrew club, and a forum to replace the meetings for us to get together and discuss and resolve issues. Building a kit is 1/2 of the fun for me. Thanks again! What a great time you have offered us Apple II fans.

by **jimm** » Wed Feb 20, 2002 11:05 pm

Dave,

Looking forward to that GS/OS Driver!

Rich,

Way cool idea!! :smile:

-Jim Maricondo

by **JetPilot** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 12:07 am

Put me on the list for a PCB.

Bill

by **Sheppy** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 2:25 pm

I'm all excited about this project. Always great to see some cool new Apple II development under way.

Also great to see some guys I haven't bumped into for a while (hi Dave, Jim :smile:...

by **slidertx72** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 10:14 pm

Is anyone doing any work on USB access for GS/OS??

by **ncbill** » Sat Feb 23, 2002 4:25 pm

Wow this is incredible!

I tried to get the guy who did the FlashROM card interested in this a year ago but he wouldn't bite.

Put me down for at least 1 card.

Very interested if GS/OS will be supported?
Larger drives with GS/OS (more than 2-32MB volumes per device?)

256MB CF cards are under $90 (newegg.com)
Could we have 2 PRODOS and 1 or more GS/OS volumes on a card of that size or will it be PRODOS only or GS/OS only?

Are the CF cards readable in a PC or Mac to be able to be used by software emulators?
(n.b. even a Mac formats flash memory as PC format)

You should add a small surcharge on the first X orders to pay for a board to be sent to the Woz. He'd love this!

by **legojudge** » Sat Feb 23, 2002 8:56 pm

Hi all;

Just checking in. I've already made it known that I am on the list for a couple of CF cards.

Knowing that a CF card combined with my recently ordered ZipGS accelerator will bring my Apple IIgs to tthe forefront of Apple II computing, makes me quiver. :wink:

Now, I just have to figure out how to get my IIgs on the Internet without a shell account.

A USB interface would be awsome. Hopefully, someone will take up the challenge.

Thanks Rich,

Brian

by **dlyons** » Sun Feb 24, 2002 4:17 am

I've made good progress with the GS/OS driver. You can use CFFA in GS/OS even without my driver, but the driver speeds it up for two reasons: (1) runs from RAM, and (2) avoids GS/OS having to copy the data to/from bank 0 where the card's firmware can read & write.

The main thing on my to-do list is to use the GS/OS cache for Read and Write, which should speed things up a little more.

How does the following sound?

Supports 1 or 2 CFFA cards. (Anyone plan to use more than two at a time?)

The "implied partitioning" scheme (no partition map is stored on the card) is currently four 32MB partitions, plus a fifth partition with all the remaining space. -- Other schemes would be possible, but should stay in sync with what the card's firmware implements.

The devices names have the form ".CFFA.S7.P1.SANDISK_SDCFB-16" (slot 7, partition 1, with a SanDisk 16 inserted). My older scheme was just ".COMPACTFLASH.S7.P1". Which would you rather see? (In normal use, you'll probably only see the device name in the context of "The volume in device .FOO could not be recognized. Do you want to initialize it or eject it?")

Q: Anyone know whether Macs or PCs ever write or interpret partition maps from CF cards? It might be difficult support (especially in the firmware), but if there is a standard we should check into it.

Q: Are your slots getting full? With a little extra work, I believe I could make the GS/OS driver support a CFFA card even when its slot is *not* set to Your Card in the control panel. It wouldn't be accessible from ProDOS 8, and you wouldn't be able to *boot* from the card, but all its volumes would appear while you're running GS/OS. -- Also, in this case, interrupts would be turned off during CF access, which could interfere with networking over LocalTalk.

by **dlyons** » Sun Feb 24, 2002 4:36 am

About performance: My 6.0.1 system, with a lot of extensions, boots from an Apple High-Speed SCSI card + HD80SC in 42 seconds. -- The same System folder boots from a CF card without my driver in 55 seconds, and *with* my driver in 41 seconds. I was pleased but a little surprised to see the CFFA actually win.

For raw data transfer, since the CFFA does not do DMA, a SCSI card that does do DMA should be able to beat it handily. -- But then again, you also wait for a hard drive to seek and to spin, which a CF card doesn't have to do.

My driver can read 1 MB of data (in a single DRead call from Exerciser) in 14 seconds, and I've already tried pretty hard to optimize the read-two-bytes loop. -- However, my tests are at the standard 2.8 MHz, and a faster processor *will* make a difference.

--Dave Lyons, Mr. Tangent
http://www.lyons42.com/

[ This Message was edited by: dlyons on 2002-02-24 04:38 ]

by **Dan G** » Sun Feb 24, 2002 8:15 pm

I have an Apple 2e which I use mostly for accounting and programming. I also have an Apple II+ which I use with a Robo-Cad program to do drafting. It has a flat bed plotter and I have been able to plot single sided circuit boards on it. I was trying to figure out how to use the Compact Flash card in lieu of disk drives when I saw Rich's notice (on Woz's site) that he was doing just that. I also have a couple KIM 1's. Anyone remember those?

by **ApplePhan** » Sun Feb 24, 2002 10:27 pm

Hey, this is a great project - count me in for a card. I'm moving into a house in a few months and will be firing up my IIGS for the first time in a while - no room in my APT. This would make for some fun tinkering for sure!

by **rich** » Mon Feb 25, 2002 1:14 am

Dan,

I do remember the Kim-1. I took an assembly language class at the local tech school, when I was in high school many years ago. We used Kim-1's as lab trainers. I would like to have one, but I am sure they are getting too expensive now!

_________________
Thanks,
Rich

[ This Message was edited by: rich on 2002-02-25 01:15 ]

by **dlyons** » Mon Feb 25, 2002 3:37 am

GS/OS driver progress: It recognizes a CFFA card even when the slot is not set to "Your Card". It even works in slot 3.

by **WilliK** » Mon Feb 25, 2002 9:58 am

Hi, y'all!

I've been able to format 250 megabyte Zip disks with at least 6 32 megabyte partitions and then access them all with ProDOS 2.0.3. So using all available space on a 256 megabyte CF from ProDOS 8 should be no problem.

Willi

by **LT307** » Mon Feb 25, 2002 10:42 pm

Was that on a SCSI card? Cause without a Smartport driver on the card, you might be limited to 2x32MB partitions per slot. Dave do you plan to impliment partition support and maybe removable device support on the GS/OS driver? I would really love to see a Zip, CD-ROM or LS-120 drive (cheap way to read 1.44MB floppies) hooked up to the card. This would fill a major gap now that A2 SCSI cards are out of production. As for a ROM based Smartport driver for the ProDOS 8 users, from what I read it may not be possible without a bit of RAM on the card for storing the partition map (GS/OS drivers store it in main memory).

by **dlyons** » Tue Feb 26, 2002 3:01 am

I'm not planning to read partition maps or do removable-device support in the GS/OS driver (but the source code will be available if someone wants to).

You're right, with no RAM on the CFFA card it would be very difficult to read & respect a partition map in firmware.

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