How can we use the CF card as a bootable hard drive?

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How can we use the CF card as a bootable hard drive?

Postby cyril3d » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:45 pm

Hi

I just add a CF card to my CFFA 3000 but I don't know how to use it. I formated the CF in FAT32 and I understand I can put image files as I do on the usb clip but I don't know how I can make a bootable hard drive ?

HOw should we use the CF menu (partitions, raw use, mbr ..)?
is there some tutorial on this part please?

I never used a hard drive with my Apple II in the 80's so I don't understant what I can do here

thanks for your help

cyril
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Re: How can we use the CF card as a bootable hard drive?

Postby david__schmidt » Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:12 pm

Hi, Cyril -

Have you gone through the quick start video? It won't quite answer the question, but it will give you some foundations to build on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seIf-_o5SdQ

The answer is that you create an image using something like CiderPress, format it using ProDOS, make sure it has BASIC.SYSTEM on it, and then you set it up in the CFFA3000 menu as a SmartPort drive. Then, depending on what slot the CFFA3000 is in and what boot order you set up (slot 7 is an excellent choice for the CFFA3000) it will boot first.
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Re: How can we use the CF card as a bootable hard drive?

Postby cyril3d » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:14 am

Thanks DAvid

it's so fun using one's Apple IIe after all these years!

thanks again

cyril
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Re: How can we use the CF card as a bootable hard drive?

Postby drkenb » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:17 am

david__schmidt wrote:The answer is that you create an image using something like CiderPress, format it using ProDOS, make sure it has BASIC.SYSTEM on it, and then you set it up in the CFFA3000 menu as a SmartPort drive. Then, depending on what slot the CFFA3000 is in and what boot order you set up (slot 7 is an excellent choice for the CFFA3000) it will boot first.


Hi David - I'd like to pick your brain a bit if I may. I am using my CFFA3K in a IIGS which I wish to run GSOS 6.0.1 off a 128 MB CF card configured as a single volume which will be my default boot device. Is it possible to use the CFFA3K in this fashion? I'll continue to run DOS and ProDOS software off the USB drive containing .DSK and .PO images, but my main work environment is GSOS and the CF card is my preferred media for that.

What I am looking for specifically is very much a cookbook set of directions for getting the 128 MB card configured as a single ProDOS 6.0.1 volume onto which I can install the OS. Any help in pointing me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated!

Ken
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Re: How can we use the CF card as a bootable hard drive?

Postby david__schmidt » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:40 pm

drkenb wrote:Hi David - I'd like to pick your brain a bit if I may.

You may. But it'll cost ya.

drkenb wrote:I am using my CFFA3K in a IIGS which I wish to run GSOS 6.0.1 off a 128 MB CF card configured as a single volume which will be my default boot device. Is it possible to use the CFFA3K in this fashion?

Can you clarify exactly what you do now, or want to do? You can of course format a 128MB CF card as HFS to 128-ish MB, but then you can't boot from it (because GSOS must be booted from a ProDOS volume, which can be at most 32MB in size).

If you want a couple of 32-ish MB volumes on your CF card, then no sweat... but you're kind of mixing metaphors above and I'm not sure exactly what you want to end up with is possible with any storage device, let alone the CFFA3000.
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Re: How can we use the CF card as a bootable hard drive?

Postby drkenb » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:43 pm

david__schmidt[quote="drkenb wrote:I am using my CFFA3K in a IIGS which I wish to run GSOS 6.0.1 off a 128 MB CF card configured as a single volume which will be my default boot device. Is it possible to use the CFFA3K in this fashion?
Can you clarify exactly what you do now, or want to do? You can of course format a 128MB CF card as HFS to 128-ish MB, but then you can't boot from it (because GSOS must be booted from a ProDOS volume, which can be at most 32MB in size).

If you want a couple of 32-ish MB volumes on your CF card, then no sweat... but you're kind of mixing metaphors above and I'm not sure exactly what you want to end up with is possible with any storage device, let alone the CFFA3000.


Not sure which metaphors I'm mixing. But to answer the last question first, I would love to have a large CF card whose entire size would be a single volume from which GSOS itself could launch. I was talking specifically above about a 128 MB card, but I also have a 2 GB CF card that would be ideal for me - one single CF card, 2 GB, formatted as a single GSOS-recognizable volume from which GSOS would boot and I can store everything I wish in that single volume. That was my goal.

OK, so if I understand correctly, GSOS was made with support for HFS and >32 MB volumes, but GSOS itself can not boot from such a partition and must boot from a ProDOS (<32 MB) volume? Is that correct? When I think back to what I did on the MicroDrive Turbo, that makes sense. (The lightbulb which always floats above my head finally flashed on! It's been a long time since it was ON...) On the Turbo, I had a 128 MB CF card in the first slot, partitioned into 4 32 MB volumes, the first from which GSOS booted. I also had a 2 GB CF card in the second slot, and it was configured as a single HFS volume and fully accessible from GSOS' desktop.

On a slightly different topic: If (for example) I want to use the entire contents of a 128 MB USB drive, I can not use the CFFA3K's utility but rather must use CiderPress in order to create 3 32 MB disk images and then one disk image a bit less than 32 MB, correct? If so, do you know what the "New Disk Size | Specify Size: xxx Blocks" setting is in CiderPress for that 4th disk image? Or will I need to determine that trial-&-error? Also, would you happen to know if there is slight variablilty among the manufacturers in terms of the number of available bytes on their thumbdrives? That is, do a Sandisk 128 MB thumbdrive and a PNY128 MB thumbdrive have the same number of available bytes or do they vary due to the manufacturers' implementations? I was reading the lates tissue of PC World earlier this week and there was mention of variabilty among the manufacturers related to disk contents recovery and file erasures.

Many thanks for the help - greatly appreciated!

Ken
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Re: How can we use the CF card as a bootable hard drive?

Postby david__schmidt » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:51 pm

drkenb wrote:
david__schmidt wrote:If you want a couple of 32-ish MB volumes on your CF card, then no sweat... but you're kind of mixing metaphors above and I'm not sure exactly what you want to end up with is possible with any storage device, let alone the CFFA3000.


Not sure which metaphors I'm mixing.

Using a volume > 32 MB AND booting from it. You can't have both. GSOS is not capable of that combination. You're evidently not aware of that limitation, hence you're not realizing you're mixing metaphors.

drkenb wrote:But to answer the last question first, I would love to have a large CF card whose entire size would be a single volume from which GSOS itself could launch. I was talking specifically above about a 128 MB card, but I also have a 2 GB CF card that would be ideal for me - one single CF card, 2 GB, formatted as a single GSOS-recognizable volume from which GSOS would boot and I can store everything I wish in that single volume. That was my goal.

You cannot attain that goal with GSOS no matter the storage medium. Sorry.

drkenb wrote:OK, so if I understand correctly, GSOS was made with support for HFS and >32 MB volumes, but GSOS itself can not boot from such a partition and must boot from a ProDOS (<32 MB) volume? Is that correct? When I think back to what I did on the MicroDrive Turbo, that makes sense. (The lightbulb which always floats above my head finally flashed on! It's been a long time since it was ON...) On the Turbo, I had a 128 MB CF card in the first slot, partitioned into 4 32 MB volumes, the first from which GSOS booted. I also had a 2 GB CF card in the second slot, and it was configured as a single HFS volume and fully accessible from GSOS' desktop.

Right, that makes sense, and would work. Boot from something else, and you can have all the 128 MB or 2GB partitions you want. But the boot partition can't be one big one > 32MB.

drkenb wrote:On a slightly different topic: If (for example) I want to use the entire contents of a 128 MB USB drive, I can not use the CFFA3K's utility but rather must use CiderPress in order to create 3 32 MB disk images and then one disk image a bit less than 32 MB, correct?

Probably so... I can't remember if the on-board formatter will do HFS images. Probably not [edit: it does], and it would take forever at 1MHz. You're much better off building big .PO files using the likes of CiderPress (or fsutil/hdutil (Windows/Mac)) to build zeroed-out files... more on that here).

drkenb wrote:If so, do you know what the "New Disk Size | Specify Size: xxx Blocks" setting is in CiderPress for that 4th disk image?

Each block is 512 bytes. All you have to do is the math.

drkenb wrote:Or will I need to determine that trial-&-error? Also, would you happen to know if there is slight variablilty among the manufacturers in terms of the number of available bytes on their thumbdrives?

There is definite variability. Do the math based on your available bytes and you will be fine.
Last edited by david__schmidt on Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How can we use the CF card as a bootable hard drive?

Postby drkenb » Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:58 am

Thanks, David - Yes, I was unaware of the inability of GSOS to run from a >32 MB partition/drive/volume. That was the thing that was hanging me up and this back-&-forth with you did the trick for me... finally!

Unfortunately, I've been spending what little free time I've had working on getting scans of inCider/A+ and other materials done and haven't been spending enough time using my systems to be masterful at this. It's amazing just how much you forget in 20 years away. Anyway, after my latest ER visit last week, I decided that I'm going to spend a bit more time playing with my systems even if it means a slower rate of getting the documents preserved.

Now on to my Raspberry Pi! And again, a hearty Thank You!

Ken
www.Apple2Online.com
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Re: How can we use the CF card as a bootable hard drive?

Postby david__schmidt » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:30 pm

drkenb wrote:What I am looking for specifically is very much a cookbook set of directions for getting the 128 MB card configured as a single ProDOS 6.0.1 volume onto which I can install the OS.

Here you go.
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